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Games => Source => Topic started by: MagiMaster on January 22, 2010, 02:33:36 PM



Title: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 22, 2010, 02:33:36 PM
I'm working on implementing the mushrooms, but I need a bit of help coming up with ideas. There are eight types of mushrooms, so I need 8 sets of effects. To make things more difficult (so that a healing mushroom won't make the game too easy), I've decided that each effect is actually a set of three effects. For example, one mushroom might either heal you, hurt you or do nothing. These sets of effects are matched up to mushrooms randomly at the start of each game.

I've got everything implemented but the effects. I've already tried a few things, so I know how to these effects:
- Heal
- Hurt
- Stun
- Darkness
- Nothing (just shows a message)

There are a couple of other effects that might be worth working on, but will be more difficult:
- Valuable mushroom (added to treasure)
- Slow
- Can't jump
- Releases spider

Any suggestions on other effects to try, or ways of grouping effects into sets? (Sets can have some overlap, so I don't necessarily need 24 different effects.)

Edit:
Release v1.2: http://ifile.it/8mfa62t


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on January 22, 2010, 04:07:30 PM
Switch controls
MAkes him smaller


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 22, 2010, 04:59:37 PM
Haha. Tiny spelunker would be funny, but for the moment at least, I don't want to have to add any new graphics. Although I might could use the built in scaling functions, but I think there would be many complications.

Switching the controls is a possibility.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on January 22, 2010, 05:32:35 PM
Couldn't you use the potion mod somehow to make it easier?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 22, 2010, 05:43:58 PM
Haha. Tiny spelunker would be funny, but for the moment at least, I don't want to have to add any new graphics. Although I might could use the built in scaling functions, but I think there would be many complications.

Switching the controls is a possibility.
Scaling works really well in game maker 8, it even scales hit masks, so don't worry about that. just scale the whip and turn off picking stuff up and it well work fine.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 22, 2010, 06:16:34 PM
@gummybears123, I don't want to just plagiarize the potion mod. Plus, I'm doing this, partially, to just play with the source code.

@marsgreekgod, I'll try it, and turing off items would make things a lot easier (and is a good idea anyway), but I bet there will still be issues with the ledge physics and such things. Nothing insurmountable I imagine.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 22, 2010, 06:23:15 PM
Also not a big fan of the spider idea, (doesn't make sense)

how about slow running, or gets heavy?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Sudonimus on January 22, 2010, 07:00:19 PM
I think slow-running is a great idea!
And shift should be to normal speed, and normal speed
should be slow as a crawl.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 22, 2010, 07:23:46 PM
what about crawling? just do nothing?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Sudonimus on January 22, 2010, 07:36:37 PM
Crawling... I don't know; I'm not making this mod.
Or make crawling impossible.

Make a growth mushroom.

Make a rotten mushroom.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 22, 2010, 07:42:21 PM
If you need any help with coding then let me know I would be glad to help


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Arucard on January 22, 2010, 07:49:12 PM
One of the confusion things that mixes the sprites randomly would be fun! Try and go pick up a Damsel, only to find it's actually a man-eating plant!  ;D


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 22, 2010, 08:55:45 PM
that would be hard, and need to make a lot of sprites... but be worth it


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on January 22, 2010, 09:58:24 PM
Make a mushroom make you see blocks and treasure that's not there!


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 23, 2010, 02:23:58 AM
Mixing up the sprites would be interesting, but very time consuming. No need to make new graphics, but a whole lot of code to mix things up.

I might could enlist the level generator to help with hallucinations though, by placing fake blocks/etc that only become visible when global.tripping gets set.

Slow running would take some slightly tricky code (I've already dug around in there) but should certainly be doable.

Any ideas on how to group effects into interesting sets? I don't think I want any mushroom to be purely beneficial, since once you found it, you'd skip all the rest, but having some generally better than others would probably work.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 23, 2010, 02:27:14 AM
Each type can do 3 things and the sets could be

(REALLY GOOD/REALLY BAD/FAIRLY BAD)
(GOOD/ A LITTLE NICE/BAD)
(A BIT BAD/A BIT GOOD/NOTHING)
things like that.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 23, 2010, 05:42:18 AM
That's the plan. Any suggestions on which effects count as really good and which are a bit bad?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Delver on January 23, 2010, 09:18:39 AM
That's the plan. Any suggestions on which effects count as really good and which are a bit bad?

Making effect only a little bit bad isn't easy, since just losing 1 health is pretty bad - so the effect has to do less then 1 damage.

maybe a revising of the jump and whip bottoms until hurt or some number of levels passed or a time limit.

or a potion then makes you give one more damage when not using guns - a strength potion of sort.

but what is the worst effect (for the spelunker) and the best effect you intent to create?




   


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on January 23, 2010, 09:56:22 AM
This sounds very interesting. :D

Don't go ripping off the mushrooms from Mario though. ;P

Anyway, effects..

*LT = For a limited amount of time

 • Lose the ability to run (Quite bad) *LT
 • Slowed down (Quite bad) *LT
 • Can't whip (Very bad) *LT
 • Heal (Awesome)
 • Poison (Reduce health [Very bad])
 • Limit your vision (Turn room dark [OMG!])
 • Restrict the ability to jump (Very bad) *LT
 • Stun (Bad) *LT
 • Make you super-hyped (Run faster [Good/Bad, depending on your skill]) *LT
 • Jump higher (Good/Bad, depending on situation) *LT
 • Hallucinations (Enemies that aren't there, blocks that aren't there [Totally lame]) *LT
 • Weaker (Double damage taken [Very bad]) *LT
 • Accidentally misplace an item (The shown up top-left of screen kind of item [Bad, or not so bad, depending on what item is lost])
 • Accidentally drop/light a bomb (Bad)
 • Accidentally use a rope (Bad)
 • Find a bit of gold in said mushroom (Good)
 • Accidentally Misplace some money (Bad)
 • Sprite swap for the whole level (Quite bad)
 • Gain a sixth sense (Spawn a ghost [OMG!])
 • Find a random item in said mushroom (Good)
 • Kill all enemies/damsels/shopkeepers that are not in "The Frozen Zone" (Ghost excluded [Good/bad])

Yes, I've listed some ideas you people have come up with, I'm not taking credit for those. You thought of them first.

Anyway, I have a feeling the list is getting too long, but I have many more ideas. Ask if you want me to continue them. ;P

Edit: Forgot to mention, with that hallucinations one, you should probably edit the sprites a tiny bit to be able to tell the differences between hallucination enemies/blocks and normal enemies/blocks.

Edit again: Just double-reading the post here, and noticed, I forgot to mention something else.. With the wipe out all enemies/shopkeepers/damsels effect listed  above, any shopkeepers killed shouldn't add to your wanted level if you can do that. :)

Edit again again: But I don't want to sound like I'm forcing you to add these features.. It's your mod. They're just suggestions.

Hopefully last edit: If you haven't noticed, most are bad too, so you probably can't include all of them or they'd end up making the game much harder.. Unless your a mushroomophobic. :D
I wonder if that's the real phobia name for mushrooms.. Hm.. Oh well, it doesn't matter. :D


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 23, 2010, 09:30:38 PM
Feel free to continue listing. Even if I don't use everything, someone else might like the idea.

I'm debating on the no-jump effect, since the easiest way to handle limited duration is to have the effect stop when you leave the level, but without being able to jump, it'd be nearly impossible to leave the level.

Can't whip and weakness are good ones. Stun and darkness are already implemented (though both need a tiny bit of tweeking). Hyper sounds fun.

I think I'm going to try grouping effects into sets of three and have each effect appear in two separate sets. With one of the effects being "does nothing", I need to sort out 11 more.

So far I have:
- Stun (Bad)
- Darkness (Really Bad)
- Heal (Really Good)
- Damage (Bad)

So far I like (and think I can implement):
- Slow (Bad)
- No whip (Bad)
- Hyper (?)
- Weaker (Bad)
- Hallucinating (Bad)
- Gem (Good)

Unfortunately, I think that may be leaning too heavily towards bad, so some of that will probably have to change.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 23, 2010, 09:55:43 PM
(good) Time tell ghost is doubled (no effect when ghost is out)
(good-ish) go crazy, walk speed is up to run, run doubled, whip does 4 damage, back swing does 5, jump randomly 0.5*1.5
No jump= death so no.
(good) not sure what to called (thift?) all money is worth double



Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on January 24, 2010, 08:05:31 AM
Okay.. Glad to know that you're toying with some of the ideas. I'll keep adding ideas.

*LT = For a limited amount of time
*??? = Not sure if easily possible

- Previously listed

  Lose the ability to run (Quite bad) *LT
  Slowed down (Quite bad) *LT
  Can't whip (Very bad) *LT
  Heal (Awesome)
  Poison (Reduce health [Very bad])
  Limit your vision (Turn room dark [OMG!])
  Restrict the ability to jump (Very bad) *LT
  Stun (Bad) *LT
  Make you super-hyped (Run faster [Good/Bad, depending on your skill]) *LT
  Jump higher (Good/Bad, depending on situation) *LT
  Hallucinations (Enemies that aren't there, blocks that aren't there [Totally lame]) *LT
  Weaker (Double damage taken [Very bad]) *LT
  Accidentally misplace an item (The shown up top-left of screen kind of item [Bad, or not so bad, depending on what item is lost])
  Accidentally drop/light a bomb (Bad)
  Accidentally use a rope (Bad)
  Find a bit of gold in said mushroom (Good)
  Accidentally Misplace some money (Bad)
  Sprite swap for the whole level (Quite bad)
  Gain a sixth sense (Spawn a ghost [OMG!])
  Find a random item in said mushroom (Good)
  Kill all enemies/damsels/shopkeepers that are not in "The Frozen Zone" (Ghost excluded [Good/bad])

- New +++ Adding rarity level suggestions * Common, Uncommon, Rare *

  Steroid effect - Deal triple damage (Rare + Very good) *LT
  Switch controls - Left = Right, Vice versa, Up = Down, Vice versa (Uncommon + Very bad) *LT *???
  Sore back muscles - Can't crawl (Common + Bad) *LT
  Invincible - Invincible for about 8-12 seconds *Excludes Man Eating Plants, getting squished, spikes, and all other things that are insta-kill* (Rare + Great) *LT
  MGG's Idea - All treasure collected has double value (Uncommon + Good) *LT or whole level
  Sugar Rush - All enemies are slowed down while you maintain a normal speed *Excludes final boss* (Rare + Great) *LT *???
  Increased Charms - All prices for items in shops are halved for the whole level (Rare + Very good) *???
  Detect exit for that level - Compass arrow points to exit even if no compass is owned *Effect can be found even with compass* (Uncommon + Good) *???
  *Already mentioned* Heal - Heal 1 HP (Uncommon + Very good)
  Refreshed - Heal 2 HP (Rare + Great!)
  Infection - Lose 1 HP every 30 seconds or minute for the whole level (Rare + Quite bad)
  Sore legs - Can't jump while running (Uncommon + Quite bad) *???

That's all I can think of right now. But there's definitely more ideas ready to be plucked. Hopefully some that I mentioned here can be used. :)


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 24, 2010, 11:59:26 AM
Well, I implemented slow and hyper. Slow's bad, but not all that bad. You have to hold shift to get up to walking speed. Hyper's good, but only a bit. You are at running speed without running. I might tweak the numbers a little bit.

For the effect sets, should the chances be equal for any of the effects, or should there be common/uncommon/rare effects?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on January 26, 2010, 07:27:24 AM
There should definitely be rarity. The low-level-effect ones could be the common ones (High chance).
The medium-level-effect ones could be uncommon (Medium chance).
The high-level-effect ones could be rare (Low chance).

Examples:

Healing 1HP: See below.
Healing 2HP: If this is included, it should be rare, and Healing 1HP should be uncommon. If not included, then Healing 1HP should be uncommon or rare.

Rarity will make the mod balanced and probably much funner. Either way, it will make more sense. The really good things and really bad things appear less, and the crappy-good things and the just plain crap things appear often.

So, slow and hyper eh? Sounds fun. :D


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 27, 2010, 11:20:53 AM
I'm not sure I have enough crappy good things to finish this though. Everything so far is either very bad, kinda bad or very good. Hyper is pretty much neutral.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 27, 2010, 11:26:58 AM
Just keep working on it, get one out and people well come up with more ideas


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on January 27, 2010, 09:08:44 PM
I'm not sure I have enough crappy good things to finish this though. Everything so far is either very bad, kinda bad or very good. Hyper is pretty much neutral.

As long as you're still working on the mod, then there's plenty of time to think of more good things. Maybe if you can't come up with any for a while, release a version without rarity, and then while people are worshiping you for that, you can think of new ideas in peace. ..Wait, I pretty much just quoted MGG there, but in a longer speech that's easier to understand.
My bad. :D I'll still post, though. I can't let this good 2 and a half minutes of my life go wasted. :(


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 27, 2010, 11:42:04 PM
Even without rarity, I don't have quite enough good effects. Really I think having just one more moderately good effect might be enough for a first release, though I could just use the "found a gem."


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 28, 2010, 12:08:23 AM
just have a good chance of healing. that should work for now.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 28, 2010, 03:41:01 AM
That's way too good of a good thing. It makes the game much easier if you have too good of a chance of getting more health. (Even a 1 in 3 from a particular mushroom means an extra 4 or so health by the end of the game.) That should be balanced against the bad stuff though. The problem is that with so few good things, everyone would ignore all but the one type once they figured out which one it was.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on January 28, 2010, 08:26:54 AM
Well if you're talking about people going for it in the one run, yes.. They would go for it over and over.. If you mean every time they play, though, why not just randomize the sprites for the mushrooms each time, so that they won't know which mushrooms do which each time they play?

Unless you are doing that -- Then I wouldn't have a clue what you're on about. ;P

Actually, though.. I don't think they'd ignore other mushrooms. I'm sure they'd still be curious to see if any others might have good effects.. I know I would. :D


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 28, 2010, 12:23:21 PM
I do already randomize effects at the beginning of each run. What I mean is, once you start playing, you'll pick up all the mushrooms in the first couple of levels until you figure out what the healing one is, and afterwards there aren't enough other good effects for you to risk picking up anything besides that one.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Kirby on January 28, 2010, 12:51:46 PM
Only wimps will go for the healing mushroom. I for one will NOT go for the healing mushroom after I find out what it is. 8D


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 28, 2010, 01:14:55 PM
then you will die!



Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on January 28, 2010, 06:04:16 PM
Well sure they know they can go for the one mushroom over and over, but that would ruin the spirit of the mod. I'm sure people will still pick up the other mushrooms out of curiosity, cos you've got a couple of good effects to spare, there, right? Just implement them for now.. And when you have more good ones, replace the crappy-good ones with the new cooler good ones.

--
Anyway, have you created the sprites for the mushrooms yet?
If so, look @ a.
If not, look @ b.

  a) Do they look pro? Maybe if you're not good at creating the sprites you could get one of the good pixel artists here to help you out.

  b) Repeating what I said in a), maybe you could get someone to help you out. If not, does that mean you're working on them?

Actually screw those answers.. Just update me on the sprites please. :)


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 28, 2010, 06:10:13 PM
I'm using the mushroom sprites that come with Spelunky. Apparently Derek had planned on including mushrooms at some point (or possibly included them for future mods).

Anyway, I'm assuming that you wouldn't pick up a mushroom that you knew would be all bad at the very least (having tried it at least once already). Currently, that'd be most of them.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 28, 2010, 06:15:36 PM
I'm using the mushroom sprites that come with Spelunky. Apparently Derek had planned on including mushrooms at some point (or possibly included them for future mods).

Anyway, I'm assuming that you wouldn't pick up a mushroom that you knew would be all bad at the very least (having tried it at least once already). Currently, that'd be most of them.
The mushrooms where made because at one point you had to eat.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 28, 2010, 06:17:44 PM
Oh yeah. Now that you mention that, I think I remember reading that elsewhere.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 28, 2010, 06:30:27 PM
I wish I could find who said that.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on January 28, 2010, 07:29:35 PM
That was sarcasm right?  As in you said that?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 28, 2010, 08:32:33 PM
No no it wasn't. I heard it many places before I said it here.

But I see why you would think that.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on January 29, 2010, 12:08:40 AM
Cool. Eating actually would have been pretty fun. Maybe someone should make a mod with that in it. :)

Anyway, good to know that the sprites are already included. That should be a great time-saver.

Well, keep up the good work so far.

 .. Unless you don't want to. Bailing a mod is always understandable in my eyes. I don't know anything at all with game maker.. Too confusing.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 29, 2010, 01:05:56 AM
Cool. Eating actually would have been pretty fun. Maybe someone should make a mod with that in it. :)

Anyway, good to know that the sprites are already included. That should be a great time-saver.

Well, keep up the good work so far.

 .. Unless you don't want to. Bailing a mod is always understandable in my eyes. I don't know anything at all with game maker.. Too confusing.
Game maker isn't confusing, you just aren't looking at it the right way.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on January 29, 2010, 01:45:06 AM
I'm talking about scripts. I should have mentioned that.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 29, 2010, 02:09:02 AM
It's like drag and drop, but you have to type it, and then call it in an object.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 29, 2010, 03:49:56 AM
Considering that programming is what I do, bailing on a mod just because the programming was difficult would be a bit...

Anyway, I've implemented a couple more effects. I'm up to 9 now if you include the "does nothing". I need to look over the lists of suggestions and see if there aren't a couple more things I can add.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 29, 2010, 11:05:38 AM
So how are the mushrooms working now? does each one do it's own thing or is it random each time or...


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 29, 2010, 04:28:25 PM
For the moment, each one does its own thing, but all the code is in place to fix that. I just need to decide what does what.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 29, 2010, 04:34:12 PM
is spawning them working out fine?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 29, 2010, 04:36:29 PM
Seems to be fine. They spawn more often in alcoves, slightly more often in tunnels and fairly rarely elsewhere, and the spawn more or less often depending on the type of terrain.

Currently, they never spawn in shops or in boxes/chests/pots/etc. I might or might not decide to change that.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on January 29, 2010, 04:38:28 PM
Don't add them in shops or boxes


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 29, 2010, 04:38:47 PM
That ... makes a lot of sense.

good job.

No boxes or shops.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 30, 2010, 04:25:20 AM
I was considering adding them as a rare spawn in the general store. I was also considering adding a mushroom 'store' which was actually just a place where several mushrooms grow together. Either would be pretty simple, but I'm not sure either would add much to the playability.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on January 30, 2010, 08:58:16 AM
Sounds great. How is eating them going to work? Can you pick them up, or do you just eat them if you try to pick them up?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on January 30, 2010, 12:24:29 PM
THey should work like potions, pick em up and THEN eat em


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 30, 2010, 12:41:24 PM
No, I think to make this more of it's own mod, they should be pick up and eat right then.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on January 30, 2010, 12:50:02 PM
Then its like normal Spelunky.. sort of...


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 30, 2010, 01:01:03 PM
thats the idea. normal spelunky with mushrooms.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on January 30, 2010, 01:02:37 PM
Well i said
THey should work like potions, pick em up and THEN eat em

Because then you can throw them

And there should be a  chewing animation


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Delver on January 30, 2010, 01:13:09 PM
thats the idea. normal spelunky with mushrooms.

I like it that way  :)

We should really have another of those minimum change mod (like spelunky avatar) only that all doors are changed to pipes which you enter mario style  :)

anyway, what about a effect that makes you go ultra fast, but instead of speeding the spelunker up, you speed everything else down. 

not sure if that haven't been suggested before, just thought it could be a nice "power up"  ;)   


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 30, 2010, 01:18:46 PM
(editing room speed and speeding up the spelunker would be a good way to keep him the same speed and lower all other speed, by the way)

nice idea delver.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 30, 2010, 03:57:00 PM
Mushrooms are eaten as soon as you pick them up. There's not much point to carrying them around unless you just want to be close to the exit when testing new mushrooms out. Monkeys and spring traps can still throw them around though.

Anyway, I considered making the hyper and/or slow effect change the speed of everything else, but (without actually trying it) I'd bet there would be several complications to deal with that I don't have to worry about when just messing with the player's move speed.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on January 31, 2010, 08:48:56 AM
I'd like to be able to pick them up, but it's your mod. You do what you think is best. Or whatever's quicker/easier. :)

Cos maybe you'd be able to throw them at enemies or carry them from room to room?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on January 31, 2010, 11:31:04 AM
I don't like picking them up, carrying mushrooms doesn't seem very... spelunky. them growing would be better.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on January 31, 2010, 03:19:07 PM
That would be awesome


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Sudonimus on January 31, 2010, 03:41:16 PM
Has this been released yet?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 31, 2010, 03:43:16 PM
How do you mean, growing?

And no, I haven't released this yet.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Sudonimus on January 31, 2010, 03:50:43 PM
Darn. When do you think this would be finished?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on January 31, 2010, 07:26:56 PM
How do you mean, growing?

And no, I haven't released this yet.

I think he means growing up out of random tiles. Maybe area 1 could grow a few, then area 2 would grow much more, for all the grass and stuff. Then, maybe you should make -unique- mushrooms for area 3, like.. Maybe they all look frozen, and don't do the normal effects from the other areas?
Just suggestions.

Darn. When do you think this would be finished?

You should try be a bit more patient. As hard as it is, for some people. It's probably going to take at the least, 1 week. But that's if he works hard on the mod and finds a way to fix all the bugs. Only time will tell. .. Or MagiMaster. He might know, too.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on January 31, 2010, 07:55:29 PM
For me, it doesn't matter as long as its good


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on January 31, 2010, 09:48:53 PM
Well, there don't seem to be any bugs right now, but it's not really balanced at all. Right now every mushroom does one thing (randomized at the start of a run), so if the green one heals you, every green one will. I need to find just a few more weaker effects to fill out the list so I have enough to give every mushroom three effects.

Right now I have 9 effects that go like:
2 very good
1 ok
3 neutral
1 bad
2 very bad

To make it worth the risk of picking up a mushroom, I think I need 2-3 more in the neutral to ok range. I've looked over the lists of suggestions and nothing much pops out (either too good, too bad or too difficult to implement).

When I get the rest of the effects in and assign them all, I think the mod will be finished.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on February 01, 2010, 03:42:41 PM
I'm not sure if you posted this already but which effects did you use?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 01, 2010, 11:41:16 PM
Most have been posted, but I've got, in rough order of benefit:
- [SECRET]
- Heal
- Bless
- Gem
- Hyper
- Do Nothing
- Slow
- Stun
- Spores
- Hurt
- Darkness

Edit: Just added a fun one, but it's pretty powerful.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on February 02, 2010, 12:22:21 AM
I would like to see how it's going so far, would you let us test it as of yet?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 02, 2010, 12:52:49 AM
Not quite. I added a couple more effects and I just need one more to fill out the list. After that, I'll make a release.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on February 02, 2010, 03:02:10 AM
Not quite. I added a couple more effects and I just need one more to fill out the list. After that, I'll make a release.

Looking forward to it.
Would the release have mushrooms w/ 3 effects, or would they each have 1 effect for the first release?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 02, 2010, 01:14:25 PM
They'll have 3 for the first release.

Edit:
Here's release v1.0: http://ifile.it/yj86huo
There are 8 mushrooms and 12 effects. Each mushroom has a rare, and uncommon and a common effect, and each effect shows up twice.

The effects are:
- [SECRET]
- Heal
- Bless
- Gem
- Hyper
- Nothing
- Slow
- [SECRET]
- Spores
- Stun
- Hurt
- Darkness

If you notice any bugs or if you think anything is out of balance, please let me know.

Oh yeah. There are also several other small changes I made that have nothing to do with mushrooms. :)


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Kegluneq on February 02, 2010, 04:05:45 PM
Good lord the darkness one is deadly.

It doesn't seem like the effects are consistent per play, or if they are, then the common/uncommon/rare has absolutely nothing to do with each other.

For instance, I found a gray one, which stunned me, than another gray one, which had a gem under it! Wheres the correlation?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Delver on February 02, 2010, 04:36:54 PM
That's alot of effects  :)

So far I like the darkness one the best (but don't think a found them all yet). the fact that the mushrooms are stationary really helps make them less abusive. 

ps. really, really likes the new layout pieces you put in  ;D   


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 02, 2010, 06:38:15 PM
Thank.

No, there's no real correlation between effects. I don't think the effects I have would really support that. (But you can be sure that the rest of the gray ones for that play will either stun you, give you a gem or stun you. That was one of the relatively safe but nothing special mushrooms.)

Edit: Oops. I forgot to put lamps in the new shop layouts... Here's v1.0.1 then: http://ifile.it/nqaf014


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: grieck on February 02, 2010, 08:18:58 PM
should DARK really be so common as to appear Every Other Mushroom? and Blessed does what?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 02, 2010, 09:57:48 PM
Doh. I have the rarities backwards... Just a sec. As for Bless, it [SECRET]. :D

Edit: v1.1: http://ifile.it/e706idx


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: grieck on February 02, 2010, 10:41:27 PM
i had gotten bless almost as much as dark...it did nothing


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 02, 2010, 10:42:34 PM
It does something, and it's (supposed to be) slightly more common than dark.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on February 03, 2010, 04:59:23 PM
Sweet. I'll try this out now. :)

Edit: Ahahaha! Oh god, this is great! Nice job! :D
This is really fun. I'm gonna keep playing. I'll try edit more thoughts in later.

Edit: Whoa. That darkness one is so bad. ;P

Edit: You should probably edit the tutorial level. :D Put some rigged mushrooms in it to show people what the effects can do. By rigged, I mean, make the mushrooms always in the same spot and do the same thing every time you play the tutorial level. ;D

Edit: Is this supposed to happen? (Look in attachments)


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Kegluneq on February 03, 2010, 06:03:23 PM
As an extra touch, the mushrooms on top of the big SPELUNKY sign should randomly switch places as well as types.

And the mushrooms should disappear with a poof of spores or something when you whip them.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 03, 2010, 06:12:26 PM
Well, I might could edit the tutorial to include one of each mushroom, but I don't think I'd want to give away all the effects so soon.

I already made the mushrooms blow a puff of smoke when hit. A puff of spores would require new sprites, which I'm trying to avoid as much as possible.

Hayden, is what supposed to happen? I don't see anything out of place.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: grieck on February 03, 2010, 07:22:06 PM
he's referring to your new shop design, which is on purpose


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on February 03, 2010, 07:25:43 PM
And the exit is sometimes different in area 1...(Or is that the potion mod?)


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 03, 2010, 08:04:59 PM
Yeah, I added a few layout pieces in various places. The new shops can show up anywhere. The snake pits are slightly different. There are a couple of miscellaneous pieces in area 1 as well as the new exit piece. I haven't gotten around to adding much to the other areas.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on February 03, 2010, 08:06:17 PM
Nice job! I like it!


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on February 03, 2010, 08:25:46 PM
Darkness needs to be a little rarer, but I really like it otherwise!


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 03, 2010, 09:06:05 PM
Hmm... Unless there's another bug, darkness should only happen about 1 every 24th pickup (it's the rare effect of two mushrooms and rare effects should happen 1/6 of the time you pick them up). To make it rarer, I'd have to change the chances for the rare/uncommon/common effects.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on February 03, 2010, 10:44:57 PM
What's darkness again?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on February 03, 2010, 11:54:51 PM
What's darkness again?
When... it gets dark.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 04, 2010, 02:06:12 AM
Well, if anyone notices any bugs or thinks of any interesting suggestions let me know. I might could change the probabilities, but I'd like a bit of input on what to change it to first. Other than that, I think I'm about done with this one. If I make any other mods, I'd probably combine the two though.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on February 04, 2010, 04:07:32 AM
So, that shop design was on purpose?

To be honest, I like it. :)
Anyway..
If I find any bugs, sure. I'll report them.
Also.. Are mushrooms in the editor? That'd be cool. Not very necessary though. I doubt it people would use the editor still anyway, with LE+ being available.
And the tutorial thing isn't really necessary. Don't worry about it.

Now, finally - When you think about it, the darkness effect needs to be balanced. When you get heal, it just gives you 1 HP. When you get darkness, it keeps only the tiniest bit of light around you. Maybe make the light area bigger, or spawn a flare with the mushroom too.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 04, 2010, 01:09:04 PM
Heal isn't the best effect. Hurt and heal balance at 1 hp each. Though I might could increase the light radius a bit.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: banna8 on February 04, 2010, 02:31:10 PM
Have any item spawns been suggested yet? (besides treasure)
Maybe spawn a jetpack, or a kapala?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on February 04, 2010, 03:27:55 PM
Kapala would bbe nice


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on February 04, 2010, 05:41:10 PM
No it shoudn't spawn a Kapala, thats to cheap. and a jet pack is really pushing it.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 04, 2010, 07:46:00 PM
Agreed. I can't think of any good items to spawn from a mushroom. Ropes and bombs make a bit of sense, but you get those from crates already. I do want to maintain a bit of versimilitude and make effects that you could reasonably get by eating or picking a mushroom.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on February 04, 2010, 08:23:02 PM
It could be...

"hey this is a bombroom (can use as a bomb, can't carry threw level, makes bomb two times as large as normal bomb)


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: gummybears123 on February 04, 2010, 08:26:40 PM
Nice idea, I like it!


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on February 04, 2010, 10:52:18 PM
I think you should just go with the simple This mushroom has a rope in it! and Hey, a bomb! ..WAIT, WHAT!? or something (Feel free to use that.. Hehe.)

Just make it "Uncommon" for one bomb or rope to spawn in a mushroom. I find it odd that no one thought of that before the release. Nice work on that.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on February 04, 2010, 11:31:07 PM
thats becuse that makes no sense.

the mushroom blowing up makes a bit more sense at least


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 05, 2010, 10:50:46 AM
It's not that no one thought of it (just check the lists of suggestions), it's just that it doesn't make sense for there to be much hidden in a mushroom. Ropes are fine, bombs are ok, but you get enough of those out of crates. Nothing else makes much sense.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on February 05, 2010, 08:58:18 PM
It's not that no one thought of it (just check the lists of suggestions), it's just that it doesn't make sense for there to be much hidden in a mushroom. Ropes are fine, bombs are ok, but you get enough of those out of crates. Nothing else makes much sense.

Think about what you're saying there.
You're modding a game which has a little character with a red nose going down into a bunch of caves, killing snakes, bats, and, oh. SHOPKEEPERS.
He also runs around saving damsels that somehow managed to get themselves in a very awkward place. You also encounter vampires, skeletons that get up and walk, giant yetis, small yetis, alien spaceships, aliens, giant aliens, cavemen, and a giant khali head. Should I keep going, or have I convinced you that it doesn't need to make sence? Just do what's best for the mod. I think that you should make it "Uncommon" to find one bomb or rope in a mushroom.

No, wait. I just remembered that mushrooms spawn alot. Make it rare, then.
Sorry, again, if it sounds like I'm trying to force you to do this.

Edit: I forgot to mention the black market.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 05, 2010, 11:02:39 PM
Ah, but you're using the wrong kind of sense. It only needs to make sense within the context established by the rest of the game (that's verisimilitude). In my opinion, finding almost anything other than bombs and ropes under a mushroom would break verisimilitude. As for the bombs and ropes, I just feel they're common enough already that it would just make the mushrooms more of the same.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on February 06, 2010, 12:11:41 AM
Ah, but you're using the wrong kind of sense. It only needs to make sense within the context established by the rest of the game (that's verisimilitude). In my opinion, finding almost anything other than bombs and ropes under a mushroom would break verisimilitude. As for the bombs and ropes, I just feel they're common enough already that it would just make the mushrooms more of the same.

Well, if you don't want to put ropes or bombs into the mushrooms, that's your choice and I'll support it.

But remember, crates give you 3 ropes/bombs at a time and theres only about 4 at max in one level, most of which hard to reach.

With the mushrooms, if you do at all consider finding ropes or bombs, I still think it would be balanced since it's so common to get hurt/stunned.

It's still 100% your choice.

Edit: With the "I feel invisible" one, maybe you should make it not trigger traps, like dart traps, tiki traps, moving spike block thing traps, and such.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 09, 2010, 01:52:04 PM
I considered it, but isn't it powerful enough already?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on February 09, 2010, 11:46:26 PM
I considered it, but isn't it powerful enough already?

Well if you don't want things to be overpowered I'd suggest removing the darkness one, because that is very intense. The invisible one is rare enough, right? I've only had it twice.. It would at least make darkness seem less intense.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 10, 2010, 12:50:58 AM
Darkness and invisiblity should be equally rare.

Hmm... I think I'd rather nerf darkness a bit than buff invisibility. As it is, it already gives a nearly free pass through the level. If it hid you from traps too, there'd be nothing on a normal level to bother you.

On the other hand, I can't think of any good way to nerf darkness. I think I made it more intense than a normal dark level, but considering there are no lights on a normal level, it doesn't really make much difference, and it still needs to have some effect on an already dark level. Any suggestions?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on February 10, 2010, 12:53:40 AM
sugeston: it has a half dark level effect, and doubles darkness (IE, each light is worth half) in a normal dark level.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on February 10, 2010, 05:21:30 AM
Just increase the light around spelunky a bit more, and.. Uh.. Maybe you could make mushrooms glow in the dark? Not much, but at least it's something.. And in real life, there are mushrooms that can glow in the dark.. So at least that will make sense.. Well.. I guess it would make it quite easy if the traps didn't trigger.. But if you won't make that happen, then yes, I'd strongly suggest to increase the light range around the spelunker, and I like that glowing mushrooms idea still. Maybe just make them glow a tiny bit, like the lit traps do.

Just another suggestion. :)


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 10, 2010, 01:11:26 PM
Glowing mushrooms is a good idea. I'll look into that.

Edit:
Ok. Nerfed darkness a bit and made the mushrooms glow a little.
Release v1.2: http://ifile.it/8mfa62t


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on February 10, 2010, 07:51:03 PM
Glowing mushrooms is a good idea. I'll look into that.

Edit:
Ok. Nerfed darkness a bit and made the mushrooms glow a little.
Release v1.2: http://ifile.it/8mfa62t

OK.. It's much better now, thank you. It's still possibly a little un-balanced, because pretty much no matter what you do, it's hard, but it's much better than before. Those glowing mushrooms really do help, so I'm glad you decided to use that. Nice work. Plan on releasing any more updates, maybe in a few days or weeks?


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: MagiMaster on February 10, 2010, 09:14:13 PM
Unless someone finds some bugs or has some good balance suggestions, there's not much left for me to do. I could add more layout pieces, but that really ought to be a seperate mod.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: marsgreekgod on February 10, 2010, 09:33:35 PM
I can't... get the download to work.


Title: Re: Mushrooms
Post by: Hayden on February 10, 2010, 11:21:42 PM
I can't... get the download to work.

Go to the link, then, click "Request download ticket". Then, I think you click "Download". The "Request download ticket" is around the top of the page, I think.