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Games => Spelunky Support => Topic started by: Whooper1222 on September 22, 2013, 03:26:10 AM



Title: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Whooper1222 on September 22, 2013, 03:26:10 AM
I don't like the fact that weapons like the Plasma Cannon can appear inside crates! I can understand getting Jetpacks/Shotguns and other good items form crates as they can be bought from shops. But you can only get the Plasma Cannon weapon when you kill the Alien Queen, not from shops or anything, so why from crates? Getting one from a crate destroys the challenge to get it! (and maybe the reason to visit the Mothership, too).

This luck factor might seem nice at first, but later you'll realize that it only makes the person hate himself after getting a OP weapon like Plasma Cannon, because he'll probably get killed later in that run from taking damage for doing a stupid mistake...

I would request to prevent such a over-powered weapon like Plasma-Cannon, appearing from crates, as the only other way to get it is heading to the Mothership, killing the Alien Queen and exit safely.


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: KarjamP on September 22, 2013, 05:56:19 AM
To be fair, a Plasma Cannon appearing in a crate is very rare.


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Toolzy on September 22, 2013, 05:59:59 AM
I don't think you understand how rare the plasma cannon is, it's literally a 1/1000 chance. If someone gets it early on in a run, who cares? Let them have some fun, they'll most likely end up killing themselves with it anyway.


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Whooper1222 on September 22, 2013, 11:39:23 AM
To be fair, a Plasma Cannon appearing in a crate is very rare...
...and that's what makes it even worse! The fact that is very rare, people will go mad (or atleast I) if they get it and die stupidly(YASD)!


1) I don't think you understand how rare the plasma cannon is, it's literally a 1/1000 chance. 2) If someone gets it early on in a run, who cares?
3) Let them have some fun, they'll most likely end up killing themselves with it anyway.
1) I know... that even makes it worse! The fact he/she wasted such a good opportunity, will drive him/her crazy! 
2) It changes the gameplay, severely.
3) Read it again:
This luck factor might seem nice at first, but later you'll realize that it only makes the person hate himself after getting a OP weapon like Plasma Cannon,and then dying later that run from taking damage(s) for doing a stupid mistake...


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Subscriber01236 on September 22, 2013, 11:41:10 AM
I hate teh plasma cannon.
Too risky.
I love the Shotgun/ Freeze Ray.
I go with them all the way (hehe... it rhymed :3)
Would rather find an alien in a pot :3
The aliens are one of the cutest things in the game (along with the killer bees :3) imo


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Toolzy on September 23, 2013, 12:12:28 AM
This luck factor might seem nice at first, but later you'll realize that it only makes the person hate himself after getting a OP weapon like Plasma Cannon,and then dying later that run from taking damage(s) for doing a stupid mistake...
I'm guessing this is what happened to you and now you're complaining about it.  You're basically saying we should remove all good items because someone will be mad if they die with them.


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Whooper1222 on September 23, 2013, 12:25:43 AM
This luck factor might seem nice at first, but later you'll realize that it only makes the person hate himself after getting a OP weapon like Plasma Cannon,and then dying later that run from taking damage(s) for doing a stupid mistake...
I'm guessing this is what happened to you and now you're complaining about it.  You're basically saying we should remove all good items because someone will be mad if they die with them.
Nope, it didn't happened to me...

Also, almost all other good weapons, for example, shotguns and jetpacks, can be found on shops, the Plasma Cannon can't be. Finding a Plasma Cannon is nearly impossible, that's what makes it even more precious!

1) I hate the plasma cannon.
Too risky.
2) I love the Shotgun/ Freeze Ray.
I go with them all the way (hehe... it rhymed :3)
3) Would rather find an alien in a pot :3
The aliens are one of the cutest things in the game
4) (along with the killer bees :3) imo
5) :3
1) If you try to use it as a shotgun.
2) Who doesn't?
3) I would too.
4) What!?
5) You're using only and too many ':3' smileys!


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Fishou on September 23, 2013, 12:31:39 AM
I think it should stay as it is, if someone goes mad because doing a stupid mistake while having the plasma canon, they will go mad also by dying while having the jetpack+shotgun+crystknife+Kapala+everything you feel really good of an item, plasma canon in a crate isn't a problem.

[spoiler]

if you get it in hell, I can understand the problem in that case, but still

[/spoiler]


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: KarjamP on September 23, 2013, 01:48:08 AM
I don't think you speak for everyone about feeling stupid, Blaze.

Have you thought of them "learning how dangerous it is" so that they might avoid it next time?

Even if the feeling does happen, have you thought about it actually wearing off?

You complaining about it ruining gameplay reminds me of you complaining about the idea of seeds.

IE, I expect similar stubbornness.

(Google's definition of stubbornness says unwillingness to change especially in spite of good argument or reason to do so. Notice the former. it says "arguments". Therefore, you fall under Google's definition of stubbornness.Not that that's a bad thing, and shows you're really keen in your beliefs).


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Whooper1222 on September 23, 2013, 06:27:03 AM
Notice my other points, too.
1) It can't be bought from shops!
2) When the only way to get it (other than getting one from crates) is beat the Alien-Queen on an impossibly hard level, IMO it's not much of a fair thing to just put it in a lucky draw game!


I think it should stay as it is,
1) If someone goes mad because doing a stupid mistake while having the plasma canon, they will go mad also by dying while having the jetpack+shotgun+crystknife+Kapala+everything you feel really good of an item, plasma canon in a crate isn't a problem.

2) [spoiler]

if you get it in hell, I can understand the problem in that case, but still

[/spoiler]
1) The only difference is that you have to actually work HARD to gain so many good items! To gain the Kapala, you must gain 16 favors(you can't get this from a crate, can you?), to get the Crysknife, you must beat the Worm! Plus, getting the Plasma Cannon from a crate is even rare than getting those all in a single run. And it depends much on luck than skill!


1) Have you thought of them "learning how dangerous it is" so that they might avoid it next time?

2) Even if the feeling does happen, have you thought about it actually wearing off?

1) It's a weapon, not a suicide bomb! Who tries to AVOID the Plasma Cannon!?! It's a ultimate golden opportunity of getting massive highscores that can make someone lead the leaderboards! It requires ENOUGH hard work to actually get it without getting one from a crate! Putting such a weapon in a luck factor makes it unfair for other people. There are people who are MADLY trying to beat the Mothership, on the other hand there some people getting from crates. Then what's the joys, if one can simply get one from crates! It also removes the challenge to get it, to luck!

2) Check my other arguments. (Don't try to hit the dead body again and again)


You complaining about it ruining gameplay reminds me of you complaining about the idea of seeds.

It changes the gameplay, severely.
Change means ruin? Oh sorry!
...And by "changes gameplay", I mean that it makes a very good difference having it and NOT having it. It's practically one of the MOST powerful weapon!


stubbornness.

Can you NOT pass a day without using that word?
Stay in the argument not go to the insult...
Rude? Who's being rude now?
I don't think being called stubborn every single time feels great, does it?



Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: KarjamP on September 23, 2013, 09:02:51 AM
I said "Not that [stubbornness is] a bad thing, and shows you're really keen in your beliefs".

In other words, I wasn't insulting you.

Read it properly next time. :P


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Whooper1222 on September 23, 2013, 10:22:47 AM
I said "Not that [stubbornness is] a bad thing, and shows you're really keen in your beliefs".

In other words, I wasn't insulting you.

Read it properly next time. :P

Okay! Atleast I know your means, but it still hurts (a bit)!


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Sarge on September 26, 2013, 10:45:09 PM
Probability of getting the Plasma Cannon: around 1/500
This means that 1 out of 500 runs, you will have fun using the Plasma Cannon.

Dude, it only happens a few times. There's no reason for you to think that "ZOMG OP WEPS INSIDE CRATEZ". Think about its rarity, man.


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Whooper1222 on September 27, 2013, 12:43:22 AM
Probability of getting the Plasma Cannon: around 1/500
This means that 1 out of 500 runs, you will have fun using the Plasma Cannon.

Dude, it only happens a few times. There's no reason for you to think that "ZOMG OP WEPS INSIDE CRATEZ". Think about its rarity, man.
First, it's rarer than 1/500!
Second, rarity doesn't make any less change, but possibility does.


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Aadrian1234 on September 27, 2013, 10:48:05 AM
the game is based around being completely random, it's not a flaw. and if someone dies from it, it's their own fault they were using it. the game didnt make them use it. if you got attacked from above while holding a shotgun so you couldnt whip in time before they land on you, that wouldnt be cheap, but the plasma cannon is? it has a negative affect to it just like the rest of the held items, it would be your own fault for relying on it too much if the knockback or explosion killed you


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Whooper1222 on September 28, 2013, 01:42:22 AM
the game is based around being completely random, it's not a flaw. and if someone dies from it, it's their own fault they were using it. the game didnt make them use it. if you got attacked from above while holding a shotgun so you couldnt whip in time before they land on you, that wouldnt be cheap, but the plasma cannon is? it has a negative affect to it just like the rest of the held items, it would be your own fault for relying on it too much if the knockback or explosion killed you
Sorry for the confusion...
I didn't meant that the Plasma Cannon would kill you, but getting the Plasma Cannon makes that run a lot different than other runs. Getting one is a fortune. But then dying stupidly is hugely disappointing...

Getting a Plasma Cannon by any other means (i.e. without crates), requires you to beat a insanely tough challenge... But what's the challenge if you can simply get one from a crate if you're the lucky person.

If one gets it from a crate, he can do insane highscores that can top the leaderboards! But it all depends on the luck!!! Fair enough, I guess!

"With Great Weapons comes Great Challenge!"

Getting one from a crate = challenge destroyed!


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Fishou on September 28, 2013, 02:02:03 AM
In my opinion, It is a way to make the user think: "Well, I gues it'll be a stupidly fun run now :P "

But I agree that if that happen during a daily challenge, inside a crate that need to use one bomb in the mines, I think leaderboard will be divided with:

-The ones who trade a bomb for the plasma cannon
-The ones who didn't


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Whooper1222 on September 28, 2013, 02:25:15 AM
1) In my opinion, It is a way to make the user think: "Well, I gues it'll be a stupidly fun run now :P "

2) But I agree that if that happen during a daily challenge, inside a crate that need to use one bomb in the mines, I think leaderboard will be divided with:

-The ones who trade a bomb for the plasma cannon
-The ones who didn't
1) See:
What a Waste! (http://mossmouth.com/forums/index.php?topic=3129.0)
How to get a top 10 highscore? (http://mossmouth.com/forums/index.php?topic=3557.0)
Saw the difference of having it and not having it? It's fun, but it's insane to have it!
Getting a cute alien out of a jar is fun! ;)

2) I get it that you can understand, but it would make it complex IMO!
Though acquiring it with your skill i.e. beating Mothership, makes it really something to boast about and/or be proud of and also, in a fair way.


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Toolzy on September 29, 2013, 12:02:02 PM
I know for a fact this won't get through to you, and you will never change your mind, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with an ultra rare item that pops up literally every 1000 runs.  Your justification of someone hating themselves and getting mad when they lose a run with a plasma cannon makes no sense, losing is part of the game. Plasma cannon isn't a guaranteed win, it's a rare item that makes for a fun run.


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Whooper1222 on September 29, 2013, 12:09:20 PM
True that losing is a part of the game, but losing in a run that might never happen in the until the next thousand run isn't that great, is it? Plasma Cannon = Infinite Bombs!

Plasma isn't a guaranteed win, but it sure is the only way to get insane highscores.
Have you read this yet:
How to get a top 10 highscore? (http://mossmouth.com/forums/index.php?topic=3557.0)


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: bqheath on October 01, 2013, 08:15:34 AM
If you would have taken the time to read the thread that you linked you would see that the plasma cannon is not the only way to get high scores. The 2nd ranked player on the leaderboard even says:

"Anyway, to get top 10 you have to basically get the jetpack, mattock or lots of bombs, and the key and chest (or sunglasses) by 1-2 (1-3 at least). Then you have to get nearly every gem into a diamond and continually get lucky with mattocks or bombs. "

Also you're complaining about high scores in a leaderboard for a random game. Someone is bound to get a better seed than you. That's why the daily challenge is there. So that everyone has an equal playing field.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a rare item spawning in a crate 1/1000 of the time.


Title: Re: Over-powered weapons inside crates!
Post by: Whooper1222 on October 01, 2013, 08:40:16 AM
1) There is absolutely nothing wrong with a rare item spawning in a crate 1/1000 of the time.
 
2) If you would have taken the time to read the thread that you linked you would see that the plasma cannon is not the only way to get high scores. The 2nd ranked player on the leaderboard even says:

"Anyway, to get top 10 you have to basically get the jetpack, mattock or lots of bombs, and the key and chest (or sunglasses) by 1-2 (1-3 at least). Then you have to get nearly every gem into a diamond and continually get lucky with mattocks or bombs. "

3) Also you're complaining about high scores in a leaderboard for a random game. Someone is bound to get a better seed than you. That's why the daily challenge is there. So that everyone has an equal playing field.
1) Only if that rare item isn't insanely powerful...

2) I meant you observe that how most people state that you have to get the Plasma Cannon to get those high scores... as getting one lets you bomb an entire level. An Plasma Cannon is worth infinite bombs.
Besides, getting one Jetpack (and possibly, a Mattock) makes you somewhat rely on your skill too. Getting the Plasma Cannon requires you to complete the insanely hard Mothership... so why add items that's supposed to be bound to a challenge given freely.

The Plasma Cannon isn't the only way, but sure one of the way to achieve an insane high-score.

3) I agree, but the Plasma Cannon makes the difference extremely high. Plus, Spelunky is more based on skill, than on just plain luck.

Plus, there can be a crate that contains a Plasma Cannon, that some people will open it and some will not. It isn't there fault (is it?), but just plain bad luck (that could be solved). You may that it might also, happen with a shotgun or a jetpack, it the Plasma Cannon is much more powerful than that (in fact, maybe the most powerful weapon).
Nothing can break blocks better than the Plasma Cannon.